GTM strategy in an AI-saturated era.

Outline Summary

Intro This transcript features Curtam (KK) Khalimi, an electric sales and marketing leader turned co-founder of Vincor, who shares a candid, experience-based view on AI in sales and go-to-market (GTM) strategies. He emphasizes human-centered selling, authenticity, and the dangers of over-reliance on automated messaging. The discussion spans economics of demand and supply, the need for in-person connections, personal growth practices, and practical advice for founders navigating growth, culture, and long-term relationships.

Center

• Core thesis: AI helps efficiency but can undermine GTM if it erodes human connection.

  • KK explains that real value comes from understanding customers’ problems, not just showcasing technology.

  • He notes widespread fatigue with autogenerated emails/LinkedIn outreach and predicts a renewed emphasis on in-person relationships and experiential marketing.

• Economic frame: demand-supply balance shapes selling reality.

  • Prior to 2019, a smaller pool of buyers faced a narrower set of sellers; post-boom, many more suppliers chase a relatively finite demand in the US/UK.

  • This oversupply leads to noisy outreach and diminishing returns unless authenticity improves.

• Human cognition and AI: balance is essential.

  • AI can empower work but risks mental/creative atrophy if used to offload critical thinking.

  • A vivid metaphor: the brain as an LLM; feed it diverse, authentic people data, not friction or negative noise.

  • The stakes include mental health, attention, and true problem-solving ability.

• Nature and deliberate pacing: a counterbalance to hyper-productivity.

  • KK advocates periodic immersion in nature and real-world experiences to restore perspective, energy, and creativity.

  • Practical rhythm: plan time for nature and reflection; avoid “always-on” modes.

• GTM strategy in an AI-saturated era.

  • Emphasize genuine conversations, storytelling, and empathy over mass automation.

  • Use a data-driven view of people: your “database” is the network and relationships you cultivate.

  • Advice to founders: practice selling; seek authentic engagement; build confidence through repeated, real-world interactions.

• Motivation and purpose as catalysts.

  • KK asserts that success follows from purpose-driven, persistent effort.

  • People with motivation navigate obstacles; those lacking purpose struggle despite resources.

• Career narrative and lessons learned.

  • A 21-year trajectory across Oracle, Microsoft, VMware, and beyond culminates in Vincor (55 employees, 150 customers).

  • Seven job switches built a vast network; long-term connections trump short-term gains.

• Actionable tips for practitioners.

  • Invest in long-term relationships; avoid transactional mindsets; nurture career networks.

  • Prioritize what feeds the brain’s data model with Yes-oriented experiences.

  • Prepare for initial nos; use them to sharpen approach and messaging.

• Vision for Vinci r’s services.

  • Vincor expanded from technology sales to marketing, video, and creative content to support authentic GTM narratives.

Outro KK closes by inviting listeners to connect via LinkedIn or email, underscoring the value of mentorship, coaching, and ongoing dialogue. He reiterates the central message: people sell to people through people. The conversation ends with appreciation for the host, an invitation to visit New York, and a forward-looking note about continuing exploration of authentic, human-centered GTM in an AI-enabled world.

Full Transcript

Today we have Curtam Khalimi who is an electric sales and marketing leader that has been at tech powerhouses such as Oracle and Microsoft and is now the co-founder of Vincor which helps companies hire remote first tech teams fast. He's an author, podcaster, life coach, tech guru and founder. He has basically done as much as you can in the world of tech. and today he's going to share a very unique perspective on how AI may actually be hindering the sales and marketing process. Kurdom, thank you so much for being on the podcast today and to kick it off, I would just like to dive in on your perspective of how AI is impacting go to market today. Um, yes. So AI is very helpful and efficient in some ways but it's very counterproductive in a lot of ways and I am doing all my responses based on my own data. I'm not reading out of any report or chat GPT or Google. This is my own personal data. So the thing is with the help of AI people can make technologies quickly and efficiently but once they try to do sales and marketing through AI they miss the human angle and sales and marketing and spreading the message around is all about understanding them. It's not important what you have built what you have made how much you know it's important what they want because they are the one who will be paying for it. So then AI is struggling and struggling the human at mass level and people are relying too much in sales and marketing on AI which is getting like very tough and difficult to crack through people. Plus on the other hand people are like sick and tired of autogenerated emails and LinkedIn messages and approaches like it's spam like what is what is going on? So now I think we are going back in some ways in-person relationship building networking event are getting hot now and I meet so many founders every day like they have built the coolest technology but they are struggling in sales and marketing. Yeah I I am seeing the exact same thing. I mean my inbox on LinkedIn and and my email is completely inundated with hey I saw this podcast uh buy my product and like that's not an authentic message. you don't know who I am and it's just a lazy way of doing things. And and I do think you're right. I think the market is just so starved for authenticity that it's really really tough to stand out. But I think for some people there's a big opportunity too. Yes. And I think I know why it is happening and if you allow me I would love to share. Of course. So basically one thing I've learned I've my career is now 21 years that demand supply is still the main driving force. So before 2019 there were for example 100 customers sitting in US and Europe and 50 companies from the world were trying to sell to them. it it made sense. But then after the technology boom, everyone saw technology pe people making a lot of money. So now kind of 500 companies from all across the globe are trying to sell to customers in US and UK. So when the demand supply equilibrium is disturbed like this, this is bound to happen. There are so many supply of developers from all across the globe and there are limited or maybe shrinking customers. So that is why this is becoming difficult and that's why founders are trying desperately from all across the world to sell to us market and then they are doing this spamming of LinkedIn messages and emails and it's not working. Yeah, I I don't think there's any way of getting away from those fundamentals of economics. And there are people who have problems and there are people who create solutions to those problems. And I think marketing is just finding a way to really understand those problems, build the things that that can actually solve them and then finding a way to communicate to them and get in front of them. But I I do think AI has in a lot of ways made people lazy on the authentic side of marketing and people are relying so much on the automation um but kind of missing the point in the process. I in a lot of ways I think you know there's some mental or creative atrophy that's going on because they're not using uh those capabilities that they're used to. Let me tell you a very interesting fun fact about human body. And a lot of people know this but they don't like remember this actively in their mind that everything in your body like your fingers, muscles, brain, eyes, whatever. Whatever you stop using will die soon. For example, if you put your finger in some straight thing for six months and after six months you remove that thing and you try to move your finger, it will not move. Even if you cover your eyes for one year and don't open them and if after one year you try to open and use them, you will be blind. That's a medical fact. Exactly same with brain. So whenever we are trying to build our muscles, we are lifting weights, we do strength training. Exactly. Brain is the same. So if we stop using brain muscles or brain it will be a it will it will be unusable. So and that is what is happening like I'm not against AI or like grow growth or progress or technology but there has to have a balance and I think this is the this is the like number one debate happening in the world right now in all the corporate circles. So guys like use AI use whatever but please keep using your brain too. Yeah, I think that's such a visceral example and I know there are a lot of studies coming out too where students who are using AI assisted uh programs for their homework or for tests, it's showing that their critical thinking skills are declining. Um their ability to solve novel problems is declining. So I think figuring out the right way to use AI um to enhance quality but maybe not completely offload the creative process or the human process um you have to strike that balance. Basically you cannot completely kill it is the same debate humanity has been doing for centuries when the knife was invented. You can use it to cut fruits but you can use it to kill someone. Exactly. with technology, exactly with TV, television, exactly with like mobile phone. So again you will not be able to like kill this but obviously we should be doing awareness sessions. We should be talking about it so that people use again AI as well in the benefit of the of all the humans not like like declining their intelligence and all that stuff. Yeah, makes sense. I uh personally, so I have three kids and I think something that's been, you know, a lot of research on is how much screen time do you let your kid have? Um, and we know it's dangerous. We know it's not it's it's not something that is, you know, just something you can give your kid and let them watch an iPad all day and think that they're going to be completely okay. Um, it's not good for their brain. It's not good for their mental health. So, I do think there are some components where the ways in which people are interacting with AI, we don't know exactly what the impacts are going to be yet, but I do think we're starting to see those early signs. Um, but in the next few years, we'll we'll definitely know, you know, definitely I'm like already seeing signs. I know people who are sharing maybe their secrets with Chad GPT. And there was this one month back there was this glitch that accidentally chat GPT started like indexing those things in Google searches. So that that's a scary that's a is scary because you know that will make us because I remember when in like in 2000s the phone and internet and smartphone came it was the the story was that you can be connected to the whole world but what happened eventually is we got disconnected between families and we are like glued to our phone and this like no new thing I'm talking about everyone knows this seeing this and experiencing this. So again we are again at the you know cornerstone of of history that we should use AI just in the benefit or efficiency of our work doing our work quickly and easier in a better way not at the cost of our like you know personal time and dependency and loneliness because at the end of the day like it's blood in our veins. We are not any robots. So we need human connection, we need community, we need people around us. Um and we should be uh like you know mindful about it. Absolutely. And one more metaphor I have that I think is similar to how you were mentioning earlier people are just I think starved for some of those like in-person experiences and uh finding actual true connections with people in a sales and marketing context too like building those real connections. I feel like food in the United States especially um there was so much push towards processed food convenience um affordability and you know 80s 90s this was all seen as a really good thing like wow I can get affordable food I can get it fast I can stay on the go get moving and then it just turned into this absolute disease and epidemic and then people were saying I cannot have another bit of processed food I need organic I need real vegetables I I need real food, you know, I need something that's really healthy for my body. And that's where I feel like all of these AI communications is just like people are just sick of it. I can't see another AI written email in my inbox. I need to connect with real people who actually know the problems that I have and have a genuine empathetic way of solving for them. completely on board and I'm even like pivoting my business around this. I meet a lot of founders who have built their very good-looking good deep technology with the help of AI efficiently and quickly but almost everyone is struggling towards sales and marketing side. So and this is one thing the fresh idea creation creativity and marketing AI will find it very difficult to take that role. So I'm like kind of pivoting my business as well like adding marketing content, video like all those kind of services. But content also is a grand word like just putting your mobile out on a frame and just talking is not content now because it's clutter. Everyone is doing it in the whole world. You have to be really creative about messaging the content. And to be creative you have to understand humans. You have to do a lot of empathy. Right. Right. Well, I think that's a really good frame of the problem and I think it's very real. We're seeing signs of it now. We're seeing a lot of companies get impacted by not being able to break through the market with the right messaging and go to market strategy. So, knowing that we're sitting in this world of abundance of AI, abundance of communication, abundance of the clutter as you put it, what do you recommend? How do people cut through the noise and what do people do in an environment like that today? Um I will share my personal experience. Um I think there's a big impact of all of this on the overall culture in the society and especially in office environment, corporate culture. Like I'm like hearing so many uh like tough and heartbreaking stories of people behaving not behaving in the right way. They're not social. they're not understanding each other. So, how I fixed it? I think my life changed a lot when I started doing photography and wildlife and nature photography maybe 9 10 years back. And what changed was I started going out in the wild. That gave me inspiration on how to eat, how to live healthy. And it gave me a lot of energy back. I literally feel whenever I am like walking barefoot on the beach. I'm walking barefoot in a garden or maybe out of the city doing some seeing some amazing stargazing sunset and sunrises. That gives us a lot of perspective, lot of energy, lot of motivation. We are basically not charging ourselves. We were we were not designed to live in these boxes where we live in. We were designed to live outdoors, you know. So I we in big cities you cannot do it but once in a while maybe twice a month one should be doing it and that thing will give you perspective also once you are here in boxes you your thought is limited. I have got the craziest of the ideas after I have done some excursions some wildlife photography some tour some you know going to a going to a big riverside far away from the city. So this connection to nature and also it will give you perspective bigger than yourself. You will question your existence. You will question what's happening. You will question other stuff. But when are you when you are living in boxes from one box of office to one box of home to one box of uh clubs. So we are moving between three boxes. No, I love that recommendation and I think a lot of people are especially in the worlds that we're in. If you're in like the tech industry, if you're on the sales and marketing side, a lot of people are optimizers and we're saying, "How do I get hyperproductive? How do I get the most out of my day? How do I cram in as many meetings?" And there's this idea of what productivity feels like. Um, but when some of those things, it doesn't feel like you're being productive when you're going on a walk on a beach, but some of those things are necessary in order to get the ideas and breakthroughs that you need to move your company forward. Um so basically let me be very honest and clear in my in my life experiences with others and myself there are no shortcuts. There is no hacking growth like you know those fancy words that's nonsense. It's not happening. There are only two ways. It's the consistent hard work long-term game or if some people are like trying to get successful overnight they are compromising they are they're doing something wrong something unethical something out of the like which which should we should not be doing rest if you want to be successful and also the definition of successful is different in different cultures different ages different countries and different cities. So it's very very uh basically subjective but there are no shortcuts you have to trust the process and you have to move through natural process like I have done so many things in my life but all the things day one my expectation was you know I should be very successful at photography I should become the best author day one even this was my but my learning is when I started the company when I was talking to my friends that hey my this is my target for the first year of the company and like now I laugh at it that oh my god what I was thinking so basically my main learning either it's photography bookw writing content my business technology sales u you have to trust the process and everything will take time it will all come to you but you have to be patient and you have to give time to the process yeah and I fully agree I I think um I've been in plenty of companies there are I agree there's no hacks, growth hacking, whatever it is, it's it's not real. I fully agree with that. And uh what is real is waking up every day and then being dedicated to the process and being disciplined. It's just like and then being okay doing the boring things, but doing them every day. So some things like to use a fitness metaphor, like it's no secret, it's diet and exercise. There there's no hacking to uh getting more muscle and losing weight. It's waking up every day, going to the gym and then eating right every day. But there's no like huge hack to do it. So I think the same applies. We are here. We have to pass this, you know, we have to cross this together and with patience. Right. Right. In your opinion, I think just to give people like a litmus test. Um because you mentioned, hey, going out in nature, make sure you carve out time to do that. Make sure you carve out time to have experiences that give you a different perspective. This might sound a little optimizery for uh people listening, but how how would you recommend baking that into a typical busy schedule? Do you have like a weekly or quarterly or annual kind of rhythm where you say, "Hey, I want to make sure I'm carving out at least this much time with like busy schedules and with my kind of life. I'm an entrepreneur managing team of 55 people globally and 150 customers. I know it's it's tough but like there is this like very important and very popular saying that if you are failing to plan you're planning to fail. Mhm. So these things are my planning time. That's my break. And basically it's an investment. And once you get the rhythm of it, you will find time yourself. Like when I go back 10 years back in my life, I was not doing it. And like I was not happy. I was making a lot of money. I was gaining a lot of customers and whatever. But I was not happy. So once I tasted this, I cannot go back. Like this is now I know. I felt it. I I we have to be conscious about things. So I consciously I felt the difference and once I have felt the difference and you appreciate this lifestyle you cannot go back. So it's it will come from within. But my point is is to for people to try try that and once they get the feeling then they will get time out. And also I think recommendation wise if you prioritize it, if you have the intention maybe in a once in a month or once in two months is a must for me and for everyone to take that break and and trust me you will get amazing ideas and you will live life in a less fearful way and more like you know creative way. Yeah, I love that. But I think it's just about people giving themselves permission to do that and then like you said being intentional and carving it out because if you don't plan for it then you won't your your schedule will always fill up with something. Exactly. It's it's it's on you what you prioritize because once another another thing the the best thing which changed my life and perspective is once you go out in the wild because you are also nature and you are very tiny like the thing which completely changed my perspective there was a night when my friend bought a telescope and we set it up on a like a very you know rooftop of a hotel and we set it up and we watched moon for like two to three hours. That night after watching that we all friends were sitting in silence for almost an hour. We were sitting in one room and not talking to each other. That thing changed the perspective and that told me the reality of how tiny we are. So once we go to nature, we see stars, sunrise, sunset and we naturally question us, question existence, question what is happening, what is happening with other people like our our horizon like broadens. Yeah. No, I think that's I think it's really profound. I think carving out that time because then you also um it also reduces the stress because you're saying, "Okay, I'm only one person. there's only so much I can do. So, if I, you know, sprint myself into overdrive, it's not even going to make that much of an impact. So, I might as well live balanced where I can stay happy and healthy. Um, and the end results will probably be pretty similar as long as I'm, you know, doing a good job every day and being a good human to other people, but kicking in an extra couple hours of work a day is probably not really going to move the needle of the universe that much. Yes. And that gives you an opportunity to get out of yourself and see what is happening around, right? To set things in perspective, right? Well, and I think tying it back to AI, tying it back to go to market. I I think that's a lot of people are missing that. It's they're missing the authentic uh in-person. I like you said, we're not robots, so we need that inperson time. We need that human connection time. Um it inspires us. It makes us more human. It makes us understand other people's problems. So I think from a business perspective um how how do you recommend people approach their go to market strategy? Are you layering in a lot of in-person events? Are you doing inerson meetings? Are you doing things that kind of come out of the mold of just email and LinkedIn messages? Um, let me let me explain it in a funny way. This idea just came to my mind in the morning when I was thinking about like what we'll be talking about today. Perfect. Consider your brain to be a database and consider your brain has a LLM. It's a learning model and the data to be fed to that brain is people. So if you have interacted with 10 people, your large language model is not giving good results. If you have met with 10,000 people or if you have met maybe with 100,000 people, so see your data, your database is filled with so much data. So the predictions, analysis, results, progress will be according to that. So your your our brain is literally a LLM AI machine learning model and to make it sharp to make it effective you have to load this database with data and data is people. So how much you interact with people, how much you enrich your database, your machine learning model will give very good results. So that is the philosophy I apply on sales and marketing and networking and business development because we miss one fact that we can be very cool with blockchain and AI and databases and systems and data centers whatever but who we actually are we are people we are selling to people through people and the whole world is also people. So we are not understanding the product rather we are understand trying to understand a subproduct which people have made. We are selling some cool technology but who we are selling to. We are selling to people. So if we have to sell good you have to understand people and to understand people you have to meet them. [Music] It's like, you know, so the engineers will get this one very quickly because I've explained to them that your brain is a LLM model. I think that's a great way of thinking about it. And it's almost like we've uh put technology on a pedestal above people um when it really should be the other way around. Like it's a tool that we use that can help us get connected, but we kind of flip the level of importance. And when you're talking about your brain being an LLM, it also makes me think, you know, be be very careful about what you feed that LLM. So, you could put bad data into that model. And um you know, you don't have a safety team to help like sift through good ideas, bad ideas, and help like take things out. Like anything that you expose yourself to, any information, it's like negative news or whatever it is, like people filling your head with bad ideas. Um it's really really tough for your model to sift that stuff out. 100% 100% you know and stay away from the noises of nos and stay close to the noises of yes. Mhm. So you should fill your database with the with the all the people of yes because we are seeing a lot of people of nos everywhere. No, you cannot do it. No, you should not do it. No, it will not work out. No, it is bad. So, you know, we have to say less of no and more of yes. So, for someone listening tactically, how do they get in front of people more? Some tangible advice like if they're like, "Hey, got a great product, but we got to get in front of people." What are some things you recommend that they do that will help them help them do that? Um when you go to the gym day one you try to pull like like you know uh you lift weights and then you have pain the next day you have resistance. So exactly the same when I remember the moment in 2008 when I was doing my first sales event when I was in Oracle and I went to this event with hall full of 300 people and my bosses seniors were with me and they already pushed me that you know go meet them and I said what will I talk about and I and they were laughing that you are in sales and you're asking what I'll talk about go I don't know just figure out just talk to talk to them so that was the pain that was the muscle brain muscle muscle flexing plane pain. So I went through that journey. So this you have to basically you have no other option. How I see it is whenever you're trying to find a job when you are a founder you are trying to basically you are selling you are always selling you just don't know. So if you are always selling you have to be good at it to interact like and also practice makes men perfect. So we have to practice and the confidence will only come when you start doing it. You you will not be confident day one. I still remember 2002 when I was giving a presentation at my in my college in front of 100 people first time ever. I remember my like my legs literally shivering. So but if you have to grow, you have to be successful, you have to do something, make your name, you have to go through this. There is no like there is no shortcut. It will like and also as I said when you sit with people of yes you will get that confidence that yes you can do it. Yeah I think that makes a ton of sense and it is scary. I mean there's one thing you know because I've been in sales for other companies so you're selling a product which may already have some traction. Um for anybody who's going out on an entrepreneurial journey um you know you're not going to have that track record with the company. So, you're going to get a lot of nos the first time. And just for anybody listening, I think it's okay. Go ahead and sift through the nose. And one metaphor I've used is I think the coolest job in the world if it existed would be to be the saleserson for the cure to cancer. If you were selling the cure to cancer, that'd be the best job ever. And what would you do? Like, okay, you were managing a territory. The first thing you do is say, "Hey, who's everybody who has this problem? Who's everybody who has cancer? Let me go talk to them." And if you go talk to somebody who doesn't have cancer and you're trying to sell them the cure, they're gonna be like, "I don't need this. It sounds expensive. Why do I need the cure to cancer? Like, I don't even have cancer." But you shouldn't be discouraged if you're running into that situation. It's when you meet the people who have the real problem that your product or service is there to solve for and you hear those yeses, that's the fuel that keeps you going. And anybody who's created a product or service, like first thing, go find the people who have a real problem. And you built it for a reason. You didn't build it just because you thought it would be fun or interesting. You built it probably because you had a serious problem that you wish was solved and you know there's other people who share it and you're going to have to sift through a lot of people to figure out who has it and who doesn't. Um I'll step back two I'll two step back two steps and main thing which I have seen is behind people doing something or not doing something there has to be a motivation or no motivation. Mhm. So someone's motivation might be money, success, fame, traveling. Someone's motivation might be fate, might be faith, they might believe in something, purpose of life. So first thing everyone should be doing is find purpose. Try to understand what is happening, why we are here, where we are coming from and where we are going. And that will give you motivations, purpose. And once anyone has motivation or purpose, they will figure it out. And the people who I know have no purpose or no motivation, you can give them the best tools, best advice, best knowledge, it can be useless. And the person who have nothing but that person has motivation, they will figure it out. So you know human brain and like with AI and chat GPT human brain is still very effective. So if you have the motivation your brain will literally give you ideas next steps whatever when I was starting my journey 8 years back I didn't know I will be here in 8 years but you know traveling the whole world exploring understanding um you know trying to understand universe world what's happening with humans and whatever in the whole universe this was my motivation to uh start the company and I just like stepped out of the job and started working. So if anyone has the motivation and they have found purpose, they have found clarity, they will figure it out. Yeah, I think that's really sage advice. And we had a VC on the podcast a few weeks ago and I was asking her what guides your investment decision- making process and she's typically looking for seed stage, series A stage, so pretty early on. And she says we're looking for three things of a combination. We're looking for the metaphor she used was a surfing metaphor. Um we're looking at the surfer, the surfboard, and the wave. The wave is the market. What's is there some market opportunity? The surfboard is the product. Um and then the surfer is the founder. And she said, "The most important thing of all of those is the surfer." Because if you have a really good professional surfer, they're going to know how to swim out and find the right wave. They could be on a not so good surfboard and still catch that wave. You know, they don't need the best equipment and they don't need to just sit around hoping a wave comes. And I think to your point, people who are motivated and have purpose, that purpose will drive the ability to go build the skills they need to achieve their goals and they'll pivot or figure out a way to win regardless. Um, so I think yeah, if anybody's looking for a company to join, if you're an investor looking to invest in a company, it's always coming back to that. Is that person motivated and purpose driven? Yeah. I' I've never seen in my life that I find someone motivated, ethical, hardworking, and they haven't made it. I I haven't seen this so far. That's a good point. Everyone who says, "Oh, I've just been dealt so many bad hands." I'm like I I don't know if it's the hands you've been dealt or there's one common thing in the equation of every single situation. So yeah. So I was just you know these reels and stuff the algorithm is very smart. So I was getting I saw this real and it was like showing rich mindset and poor mindset. Poor mindset or maybe I can like rephrase it but there are two mindset. One is hey I don't have money I cannot do anything. And the second one is hey I don't have money I should do something the same situation the mindset the motivational the motivated people will think that you know I should I don't have money let's let me do something and the other one is I don't have money I cannot do anything it's just that different right right I love that I love that um well I think you've had such a great career experience building your company. Um, I'm hoping just for anybody listening as well as our Lean Scale team, our customers, what's some of the best advice you give to somebody who's out there rolling up their sleeves, building up a startup, building up a company. Um, what are some words of wisdom that you can share that'll help them on their journey? Um I'm seeing people struggling with job hunt, finding jobs like this is the biggest problem. Not in US, it's the whole world. Mhm. So I think there's a big problem. We as a society have stopped investing in long-term relations and connections. We are getting very transactional. This is this is hurting this is hurting everyone in the long run. So we have we should be investing in long-term connections. What do I mean by long-term connections? In my business, I'm a living example that when I left the job and I started the company, my first 10 to 20 customers were referrals and introductions from my previous jobs because in those 15 years I was keeping connect connections with those colleagues and people and bosses and juniors and everyone. So this is no rocket science and I see people like they're senior people and they're struggling finding job. You know what I've been what you have been doing for 20 25 years that you cannot call back anyone who was your colleague maybe 10 years back. What are you talking about? It just don't get to my mind. So this is one thing invest in long-term connections and relationships. Please for God's sakes stop being transactional or keep looking for job after every 2 three years and you will be struggling. That's a very strong point I would like to make. That is one. Second is I see another thing um the core which I just said the motivation and not motivate not motivated people. So the people who are motivated they will be doing consistent hard work and they will figure it out and people who are less motivated they are like you know not working that hard. And another thing which I posted on LinkedIn one year back and people loved that one. Please get rid of the mindset that this is not my job. In my 15 years of my career, I get a lot of things which were not my job. But I did it gave me so much of learning and trust me that all helped me in my startup. All of it. A lot of times my colleagues were telling me that you know why are you doing this? This is zero result. And now I know what I was why why I was you know um why God or universe were was pushing me to do this because that was all to be used later on. So people are I think they're working less. They are not that you know they want like they're getting lazy. They're not eating healthy. That's why they have less energy and they want to work less and make more money. That's not possible. We are still on the earth. We are not in heaven that you just say something and it happens. Yeah. No, I I totally agree. And I think people are getting inundated with, you know, a lot of people posting on social media where it looks like they're not working as hard but being really successful. Um, you know, people seeing maybe business owners like raising money, whatever it is. And it looks like that happened in a year when it's actually like you said you had relationships that were built over 10 15 years that enabled you to get the first group of customers. Same with lean scale lean the first the first full batch of customers almost every single customer at le scale is a referral. So we're not we're not getting some net new hack to like just bring in pipeline. It's we did a really good job and cared for them and then we got introduced to the next one. It's so simple like in in my book chapter 2 is about relationship building and there is a complete topic about building your history and integrity. So you have to build history with people and do it with integrity. Yes. Yeah. So that will always help you but generally we are getting less patient including me myself but you know so we have to be conscious about give it time because in social media we see all those AI generated videos where there's this guy who was very poor 10 years back and now they they are flying their own planes like how often did this this happen when did you last time see someone of your friend doing that so it's a lot of fake like concepts we consume through those reels and then we fall for it. Yep. Yep. And that goes back to be careful what you're feeding your LLM. Um Yeah, exactly. Krom, I'm really enjoying this conversation and I I think you just have so many insights to share and clearly just like you said there, it's not an overnight success thing. You've really had an extraordinary career. I've I've had a chance to dive in a little bit deep on myself and and as you and I were prepping for this podcast, but I would love if you could just share your story with our audience because I think you've just had a phenomenal story and career and I would just love if you could share that with the audience as well. So my story is a little longer but I will try to summarize it quickly. Uh so my journey my professional corporate like job and job and business journey is like 21 years now. Um gra by graduation I'm a computer science uh graduate. I'm originally from Pakistan born and raised Karachi and I was lucky enough to get admission in the best institute of Pakistan for computer science. Um after that I did my MBA because um sitting at one seat for a longer time is very difficult for me like I love to be outdoors all the time. So I did computer science, I was coding but I was fine doing fine but I was not loving it. Uh and since after my MBA u I just shifted my career and I moved towards technology sales. I worked at Oracle three and a half years very good experience. Uh what a training what a sales organization I owe a lot of my sales principles and enterprise selling skills relationship building to Oracle and my bosses and seniors there. And then I was offered at Microsoft. Um what what a company what horizon what learning and exposure I got there and but it was 2013 14 in Microsoft like last years at Microsoft I started thinking about my own company. Mhm. And then I joined VMware and but my dream of my company was not letting me sleep. So after like 15 years of and but in 15 years I switched seven companies. Who does that? And you know everyone was my father was saying how you are switching and all that and but that those seven companies gave me a very big network. So I advise all the junior people who are like doing jobs that three to four years maximum you should switch jobs because that will allow you to learn different environments, different bosses, different cultures and different team members and at the end it will increase your network as well so that at the age of 40 you have more referral options. So after like 15 years of this yeah 15 years of this journey of uh learning crashing crying laughing partying all that stuff I started Vinc um which is now almost 8 years old 55 employees and 150 customers uh including two Fortune 57 unicorns and what we are solving here is basically we are helping founders business owners and midsize and bigger companies in their techn technology and marketing journey. First five years we were focusing cold on technology only but the market and the world is changing with AI building technology is getting easier. So we have added marketing, video, editing and like creative marketing and creative content uh services as well to the company. So yeah this is my background and current situation and uh looking to grow. Amazing. Amazing. Well, your experience has has definitely shown in uh what you're able to share and and I appreciate you passing down everything that you shared today. Uh what's what's the best way for people listening to get in touch with you personally or if they're a good fit for Vincor? Um what's the best way to get a hold of your team? I think LinkedIn is the best platform to reach out to me. Uh, Huram Khalimi is my name and the company is Vincorp and uh, they can email me. My nickname is KK and that is my email ID as well like kkincorp.com. So they can reach me out there and they can also go to uh, you know uh the my LinkedIn um, I'm also doing coaching based on my book. Uh, so I'm I'm doing coaching one-on-one group based coaching as well. So people need any advice, any help, they can always reach out to me on LinkedIn and email. Amazing. Well, KK, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you so much for sharing all of the insights. I have definitely a brand new perspective on AI and making sure it's not developing a level of atrophy uh for go to market teams and finding ways to fire up that creative process. And then always remembering we're people, we're selling to people, we're selling to people through people and making that human experience core at what your go to market strategy is and also just all the life lessons and uh showing that through your career as well is is really really inspiring. So KK, thank you again. Appreciate it. Um, and I know a lot of our listeners are going to enjoy it. And as you continue to accomplish even more amazing things, as I'm sure you will, uh, would love to have you back at sometime. Thank you so much. Thank you uh, very much Anthony to for having me and giving me the opportunity to share what I think. Amazing. Thank you. And whenever you are visiting, New York City, uh, feel free to visit our office and meet. Absolutely. Can't wait for it. Thank you.